Tuning for the Room

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The Mad Basher	Tuning for the Room	Lead	[-]
Posts: 268 (09/07/09 12:52:15) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Tags : None Does anyone have suggestions or tips for tuning your drums at a gig? I'm REALLY frustrated right now. I had a show last night and the bass drum was way to ringy. I want to get a nice round, open sound. In my practice space the drum sounds great. When it was running through a big PA it was problematic. The sound guy was arrogant and unhelpful so rather than battle I stuffed a t-shirt against the front head and moved on. I know I can do better. Billy's comment about moongel essential being a crutch for club drummers struck a nerve. I want to have great sounding drums. How do you you quickly adapt to the room and PA to get yourself sounding great? Any feedback (no pun) is appreciated. Maddy
billy ward		#1	[-]
Posts: 7883 (09/07/09 16:23:33) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Madster, bass drums are very much affected by varying acoustic properties. And let's face it, sonics are not even the last thing considered when it comes to designing night clubs. sonics are never really considered at all! So all that you can do is to KNOW your bass drum and let it fly in every space. I suppose all the engineering that I've done has filtered down to help me to make seat-o-the-pants decisions when in uneasy sonic conditions, but mostly, I guess I wish to suggest that you fly with your strength. I make sure my BD is happening. period. And then I go with it mostly. Toms and snare drums are less likely to be messed up by creepy rooms - though, it certainly does happen! Some stages sound very boxy, and you really have to ignore the ugly-ness of it all. Really, there is no advice to be given here. Overall, I make my drums sound open and true so that Helen Keller can hear them. This makes mic placement less important - and of course, there are some seriously handicapped folks out there placing mics in various venues. Again, I think recording/engineering is invaluable experience to possess. I know at least as much as most of the people that ever mic my drums and I believe this has helped me in many ways - not only in having things sound OK, but also in relieving anxiety - regarding my worrying about whether it is happening or not the way I hope. When I see the mics and speak to the engineer, then I know what is up. Sometimes I just have to say to myself that this gig is not probably going to sound very good - and move on emotionally. Some things are out of our control.
psyched		#2	[-]
Posts: 155 (09/07/09 17:50:24) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	In my experience, most sound guys are used to the sound of pillows in bass drums, and anything outside of that makes them grimace. And I'd bet most of them stubbornly stick with 1 way to mic a bass drum, despite the fact that there's plenty of alternatives (especially when sticking a mic in a ported head) and they might be able to dial in a sound that you both can live with if they broke with their habit. The only thing I can think of would be to tune your bass reso head a little higher... you'll sacrifice some of the roundness, but won't necessarily lose the low end and might get a bit more control of the length of the tone as it sounds in the venue. This might very well be a crap idea, though... like Billy says, some rooms are simply garbage. If you're playing on top of a plywood riser, between the bass drum and the bass amp, you might just have to live with it and pretend you're playing Keith Carlock's kit or something.
bryanmeyers		#3	[-]
Posts: 275 (09/07/09 18:56:00) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I agree with you two. Billy's right. If your bass drum is happening you have to trust that and move on. Sometimes I can really hear it without a little gig in my monitor. Not much, just enough to fill it out a little. But, every room is different. Sound men too. Sometimes you deal with what your dealt. It's the trenches sometimes.
The Mad Basher		#4	[-]
Posts: 270 (09/09/09 16:21:09) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I appreciate the replies. My brain is to scattered to have a coherent reply. Yeah for 20 hours in a van with 6 people! More to come...
The Mad Basher		#5	[-]
Posts: 271 (09/10/09 11:58:24) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	OK. Yes. yes, and yes. I took some time to dig further into my sound. I especially worked at the relationship between front and batter heads. I talked with the sound guy before the show to get a feel for his sensibilities. Then let it fly. The sound man is THE man. Last night was awesome! The band sounded great on stage and in house. As for the ringing bass drum, I used even less muffling and it sounded BETTER. The sound guy explained that he just makes slight adjustments to his gate if anything is problematic. Ah, I don't suck. Side note: He used a D112 and placed it about an inch and a half away from the drum, near the center of the head. Many compliments were given about the sound of the drums (and band)! So... good drum+good playing+good sound engineer=Happy We'll see what tonight's adventure will bring. Thanks again for all the input. It helps keep me sane. Maddy
billy ward		#6	[-]
Posts: 7891 (09/10/09 17:47:32) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	MAddy - you are on the road. Realize that things are not what they seem to be. Carry on. (and good job - in advance!) I've been there and done that - calling Chris Whitley's management from some remote place and begging them to fire me because I felt I sucked and didn't deserve the money.
bbunks		#7	[-]
Posts: 1241 (09/10/09 19:07:32) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	MadMan....congrats on the gig and I heard late that you were playing in Chicago from Rick. Let us know when you're back playing in our part of the world! We'll come out to the gig and hold up signs with YOUR name on them :-) happy to be playing drums
jazzfanjeff		#8	[-]
Posts: 6 (10/14/09 01:51:12) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Yesterday I played a gig where the bass drum sound was very suspicious. The engineer, who I had seen one time on a gig three years prior, and who the event coordinator at that time encouraged me to get this sound guy's name card to make sure he would never be hired again, put up these cheap condensers that were cranked so loud that the pianist's breathing could be heard clearly through the mains. What am I gonna do? As Jeff Bridges says in the opening scene of The Fabulous Baker Boys, "Funny job." My teacher at Berklee, Jon Hazilla, told me that regarding tuning his drums in clubs, he sets it and forgets it. Meaning: don't compromise your drum tuning to accommodate an undesirable room. I'm not sure he was referring to microphones and PA's, though. My approach of late is to split the difference. In other words, sometimes I will make the drums sound slightly worse on stage in order to make them sound better to the audience. In particular, Keith Carlock points out that dead bass drums sound terrible in unmiked rooms with loud bands. So I leave the ring in in that case, and adjust the tuning of the front head to best suit the room (very live room=high tension, very dead room=slack tension). When microphones come in all heck breaks loose. When playing a club for the first time, I immediately suss out the PA; if it's geared up for a loud, tight rock kick, that's what I give them, even if it's a jazz gig. For example, most clubs will have the D112 mic or equivalent, which tends to lengthen ("fatten") the kick's attack sound. So if I give them something that's fat, and then the mic lengthens that, we're heading for trouble. It's nice when the engineer sees what instruments the band will uses, then chooses equipment to match, but this assumes that there is excess equipment available, which there usually isn't, and that the engineer has listened to various types of music, which he/she usually hasn't. As long as there's not too much mud in the overall band's sound, I'm happy. I can walk into the wind, but not fight it.
The Mad Basher		#9	[-]
Posts: 287 (10/14/09 06:21:49) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Jazzy J, Thanks for the insight! I'm starting to feel that way too (set and forget). I realized a good sound engineer will work with what is given and make it sound great. A bad engineer...well...anyway. I do take the room into consideration and make slight alterations in my tuning. Sometimes all that's needed is a change in the way I'm hitting the drums. It's always an adventure! That's part of reason I love playing music. You never know what you're walking into! MC

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