Good discussion.
I think it's crazy that the US allows For-Profit health insurance companies, they add no value to our medical health whatsoever, they simply make it more
expensive than it has to be. I'm for single payer and if that's socialism, then fine, I'm a socialist.
Our current system is like a country club. If you are a member of the club, in other words, if you or your spouse is employed by a company or institution with
enough financial power to provide group health insurance, you are relatively good to go, you are privileged to be in the club. But let's say you are a
single, twenty something carpenter making $15 an hour working for a small builder that can't afford to provide health insurance -- you better damn well
hope you don't get seriously ill because all you can afford is a joke of a policy.
It's amazing to me that people don't realize the extent to which our employment decisions are dominated by the need for health insurance. I believe a
commitment from our society to make health care a right would be liberating, particularly for artists and the self-employed. I believe it would foster more
small business and more competition.
Unfortunately, health care reform is a lot like tax reform and the drug "war" -- there are too many people who make their living off the status quo
for things to change quickly. It's gonna be incremental change if we are lucky, no change at all if we are not.
Wheelchair Bound Woman
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 CPThrasher |
We are free in The United States? | ||||
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Posts: 1162 (09/07/09 21:12:19) Senior Member |
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09/07/09 21:15:46.
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ambadextro |
I lost... | ||||
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Posts: 2026 (09/07/09 21:40:18) Senior Member |
coverage (a great plan...country club style as CP states...) when I got divorced...but could not afford the COBRA interim ins. I had to apply to four ins.
companies to get denied (pre-existing conditions...) so I could qualify for HIRSP Health Ins. Risk Sharing Plan. Which is still very expensive for me...almost
to a point where I can barely afford it...and I aint no spring chickadee anymore...
Yeah...it would be nice if I could get this kind of coverage (still a high five grand deductible) with less deductible and not so much per month... Sigh... |
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CPThrasher |
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Posts: 1164 (09/07/09 22:17:32) Senior Member |
Damn, Amba, this is just the kind of unfair BS that just frosts my butt about our GD so called "health care" system. For those standing outside the
club, it should be called the No Health, No Care System!
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CPThrasher |
This explains EXACTLY what I was trying to say! | ||||
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Posts: 1165 (09/08/09 05:08:51) Senior Member |
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Mainely Drummer |
It's All About Priorities | ||||
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Posts: 3004 (09/08/09 07:25:36) Senior Member |
It is interesting that in terms of the political debate, we have seen statements like this, strictly based on arousing fear, notice all the "red flag"
words I have highlighted.
If you have no logical or truly moral basis for your argument, there is always unfounded fear to fall back on. First of all, there isn't a firm "plan" for reform of any kind, (from either side) so how can you predict dire consequences based on something that is proposed, but doesn't exist in fact? Second, there is already a private plan that reduces "Choice" (and I used to belong to one) it is called an HMO. The majority party will never initiate any true reforms, as they are influenced daily since the debate began. The minority party is betting that constituents can be swayed by bullying, braying and ignoring facts. So fear and money have to be taken out of the debate entirely before it make any sense. For those making the argument that hard working taxpayers and small business owners will be unfairly burdened, I have to laugh our loud. Look what your money can buy if you shifted your priorities. Example:
Taxpayers in Maine will pay $47.5 million for proposed nuclear weapons in FY2009. For the same
amount of money, the following could have been provided:
 14,945 People with Health Care for One Year
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09/08/09 07:30:55.
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CrusherDestroyer |
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Posts: 256 (09/08/09 12:09:14) Senior Member |
Mainely Drummer wrote: but aren't those the only two things at issue here?
Whoever sees clearly what's diseased in himself begins to gallop on the Way.
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Mainely Drummer |
Yes.. | ||||
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Posts: 3005 (09/08/09 16:33:28) Senior Member |
but aren't those the only two things at issue here? If you mean career politicians being motivated only by fear of ostracizing the corporate medical establishment , and loosing millions in future campaign contributions, then the answer is yes. One of the best young writers for Rolling Stone has a great article that is well worth the time to read. |
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fudalen55 |
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Posts: 51 (09/08/09 21:26:34) |
Hey Mainley , just like you pointed out - This past Sunday on CNN I heard that we spend more on our military budget than the rest of the world combined plus ours added in on top . The person talking also said that if we took a small percent of that budget we could pay for the public option. Bill Clinton wanted to take 7 /10ths (might have been less)of one percent of that budget to help poor nations. He was turned down because They (republicans ) said it was nation building. (I guess bombing them makes nation building ) I think that this is a gross misuse of our taxes. And amba keep the faith bro . Much love to you and yours . Louie |
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JeepnDrummer |
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Posts: 388 (09/09/09 07:43:12) Senior Member |
If you think the U.S. spends a lot on defense (only ~4% of its GDP and ~41% of the world share for FY 2010), just wait if the single-payer mandate passes. It
will easily out-spend the cost of U.S. national defense in no time.
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fudalen55 |
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Posts: 52 (09/09/09 09:03:51) |
Well actually, the military budget is more than that, because supplementals for both wars are not counted in as part of that budget. The government is already
paying an inflated price charged by hospitals for patients that do not have health ins. So if something is not done the insurance companies, drug companies and
hospitals will cotinue to inflate prices and premiums. The only way to stop artificially inflated prices ,would be for us to have a public option. I hope
things are well. Louie
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Mainely Drummer |
The Uncivil Discourse | ||||
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Posts: 3008 (09/09/09 18:55:21) Senior Member |
Continues, this time during Obama's prime time speech to a joint session of
Congress.(Video Of Incident)
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CrusherDestroyer |
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Posts: 257 (09/09/09 19:20:41) Senior Member |
Mainely Drummer wrote: McCain's got class.
Whoever sees clearly what's diseased in himself begins to gallop on the Way.
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Mainely Drummer |
Dear Friends | ||||
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Posts: 3013 (09/10/09 20:14:15) Senior Member |
Hello:
My name is Joe Wilson. Last night in front of millions of people I yelled that the President was a liar, which is now giving me undeserved fame and notoriety. I apologized for yelling, but now they want me muzzled forever. Unfortunately, there is a bigger problem. If you want to keep me� yelling you have to pay... Let me explain:
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09/10/09 20:22:31.
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ambadextro |
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Posts: 2033 (09/10/09 21:31:01) Senior Member |
Great googely moogely...
What's next... I CAN'T AFFORD MY HEALTH INSURANCE... 'K? and now you want me to donate money to you?! HAHAHAHAHAHAH$&%^$*#&(%_)%&*%$()#*(@#
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09/11/09 11:43:56.
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JeepnDrummer |
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Posts: 389 (09/11/09 12:14:22) Senior Member |
Who was up in arms when Sen Reid called Bush a liar? I thought so. Neither were the democrats in office at the time. And he still hasn't apologized.
Who was up in arms when Obama called Republicans liars? While I'd prefer that the vast majority of both Republican and Democrat politicians would be
ousted from office, I'd suggest leaving the hypocracy at home. I do believe Wilson's outburst was inappropriate, especially given the forum in which
he chose to yell his words, but if the argument is that we're to give respect to the position of the POTUS, then this applies to everyone on both sides of
the aisle. Remaining mum when Democrats exhibit this behavior and then getting your panties in a bunch when a Republican does it is ridiculous.
President Obama and the Democrats are playing partisan politics and throwing out half-truths (whole lies) with the health care bill and this pisses off some people. Obama's original figures for the uninsured included all illegal immigrants. He was called out. Only within the past few days did he amend the figure from 46+ million to 30 million, to remove the illegals from the figure. However, the House bill does not contain any participation restrictions for non-citizens, including illegals. Two amendments were submitted that included a proof of citizenship requirement to obtain health care benefits, but the Democrats killed both amendments. It's the same requirement that's already in place in many government departments. So why are the Democrats so adamently opposed to including it in this bill? Because they don't want to lose their voter base. There is also very good reason to believe that Obama will grant all illegals immediate citizenship. Don't think so? Time will tell. |
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Mainely Drummer |
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Posts: 3017 (09/11/09 14:28:25) Senior Member |
However, the House bill does not contain any participation restrictions for non-citizens, including illegals.. H.R. 3200: Sec 246 NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States. |
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billy ward |
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Posts: 7897 (09/11/09 22:08:09) |
I love all of these discussions, but so often it seems that each person's perspective is already solidly decided. "Will it go round in circles" -
fun song by (dude saved the Beatles for a while) Billy Preston and one of the first that I ever sang while playing in a crappy Ramada Inn a long, long time
ago. Of course, you all probably know that I am one of those "awful-damn liberals" In fact, it would behoove me financially to be a republican - but
I'm not. That shows how stupid I am. I do have more than a few republican friends and we just have to try to never talk about political stuff - if we do???
danger!!!
Like you all, I don't judge those who have different opinions. Everybody seeks out PLUs (people like us) naturally - so there is plenty of reinforcement among our circle of friends. I just vote and hope for the best. Our opinions are forged by our personal experiences - and let's face it, there are so many different kinds of life experiences! Anyway, this is yet another great thread - and thanks to all for discussing such a fiery topic without getting stinky... not even snippy... Sometimes i think that severe changes in lifestyle - people dying/change of occupation/a move to a totally foreign country... sometimes I think it takes big stuff like this to rattle our cages enough to where we experience a "do-over" in our thoughts and morals and religion even and whatnot. That's one perhaps small reason to be thankful when the storms are happening to us. It's so easy and comfy for me to be entrenched in my ideals and thoughts. Not sure anymore where I'm going with this so I'll peel off. G'night! |
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ambadextro |
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Posts: 2034 (09/11/09 22:31:05) Senior Member |
I got snippy...hee hee hee...!
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billy ward |
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Posts: 7898 (09/12/09 05:36:10) |
I like the word "Krispy" (with "K") - meaning a shiny viewpoint, but really underneath being kind of a tired version of snippy.
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billy ward |
alright... | ||||
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Posts: 7908 (09/13/09 13:53:31) |
just found this read through a link on google news about the alarm over this ever so-heated debate on health care. Seems to make some sense to me:
http://www.huffingtonpost...ency-sir-a_b_282395.html |
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